At the Kyes reunion, I talked to shipmates about an incident that occurred during an ammo replenishment in the Gulf of Tonkin. They all said that they never heard of this. I know I didn't dream it. I told the story a few times over the years.
I don't recall the year or the month, but I recall that we were taking on ammo in heavy seas. There was a palette of ammo being transferred when the ships suddenly parted and caused the line carrying the ammo to go taut. The palatte spun around several times and started throwing ammo off the palette and onto the fantail. The palette went into the water and hit one of the ship's screws as we were turning to break away.
This caused the screw to get skewed on the shaft thus causing a lot of vibration on the ship.
The Kyes went dead in the water as the chief engineer put on diving gear and went to take a look see.
He determined that if the ship sped up to high speed that the screw would automatically align itself on the shaft and fix itself. The ship shook badly as we brought it up to speed, then it suddenly stopped shaking. It was amazing.
Did I dream this, or did it really happen?
Remember this Incident?
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rogerdonnay
- Site Admin
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Remember this Incident?
1966-1969
Re: Remember this Incident?
Hi Rogerdonnay,
I was looking around on JEK’s website because my Uncle was aboard her back in the Korean War during her Train Busting days, and because I was in the Navy from ’66 – ’70. Your story was interesting to me because I was on an ammunition ship, the USS Mt. Katmai (AE-16). Back then I always watched for the DD787 but never saw her. JEKs WESTPAC deployments must have offset our returns to CONUS. I was a Boatswain’s Mate and a winch driver and I saw countless rearmings that went exactly as you described – up until the part about the pallet going in the screws.
I’ve done hundreds of destroyer rearmings in all kinds of weather. I’ve had pallets get dunked, then go tight-wire and flip over as you described. We usually dunked them again, then tight-wired the rig on purpose with precise timing, causing the load to flip in the opposite direction, untwisting itself. And I’ve seen pallets splatter apart on the deck of tin cans slamming some of the loose projectiles hard into the deck, causing everyone who was watching to wince. Here is my assessment.
Even if the load breaks apart and goes deep 6, it’s virtually impossible to loose a wire pallet because of the way we threaded the slings through the sides of the pallets; in, out and around the center post and then back in on both sides. The load may break up in transfer and the pallet arrive empty, but if that happened we probably would have just brought the hook and empty pallet back to put on another load.
If it was a wooden pallet it could have broken apart and come off during transfer, but the transfer of a wooden pallet is not likely for the following reasons:
A) The older tin cans like the Kyes usually had shorter king posts (The temporary steel post inserted in the deck where the highline rig is attached) this did not allow enough height above the deck to receive a full pallet. Consequently we usually broke the pallets down to loose projectiles and sent about six or eight projectiles a coaling bag. Coaling bags are a throwback to the days when ships ran on coal, but ours were made out of modern materials. Several bags could be sent in one transfer.
B) We usually didn’t transfer on wooden pallets because they were old, badly damaged and too weak, and tended to break apart in situations just such as this.
C) If a wooden pallet went in it probably wouldn’t have sunk deep enough to get into the screws, and if it did somehow manage to get deep enough, the screws would just go through it like a big potato chip. By the way, wooden pallets were depleted from inventory by 1968.
The story goes on: After the pallet was allegedly sucked into the screw “it caused the screw to get skewed on the shaft thus causing a lot of vibration on the ship.” You go on to say, “The Kyes went dead in the water as the chief engineer put on diving gear and went to take a look see. He determined that if the ship sped up to high speed that the screw would automatically align itself on the shaft and fix itself. The ship shook badly as we brought it up to speed, then it suddenly stopped shaking. It was amazing.”
(Note: The root cause of all this was rough weather.)
I can’t imagine anyone going in the water in the vicinity of the screws while the ship is dead in the water in rough weather. Presumably the stern and the screws would be heaving up and down as the ship pitched. Going anywhere near those screws would be suicidal.
Once after my ship had a collision with the Coral Sea, due to extremely bad weather, our First Lieutenant put on a Mae West, tied a double bowline in a three inch manila line, rounded up about six of us to man the line, and then climbed over the side with a flashlight to inspect the side for damage. He didn’t ask permission to do this because he knew he would be turned down. When he came back up he swore us all to secrecy. My point is this was an unbelievably dangerous action, done quickly and surreptitiously, but it pales in comparison to putting on scuba gear, which would take a long time and draw a lot of attention and then going in the water to inspect the screws in rough weather.
Then you say the Chief Snipe, “determined that if the ship sped up to high speed that the screw would automatically align itself on the shaft and fix itself.” This is probably the most far fetched part of the story. I’m not a dynamicist and I don’t have an engineering degree, but I’ve worked in engineering offices my whole working career as a technical designer, in part because I have a pretty good innate sense about mechanical things. I can assure you that anything that rotates on a shaft wants to go wonkey all on its own, all the time. If that rotating object gets off center or unbalanced for any reason, the situation will only degrade from then on and the faster it rotates the sooner it will self destruct.
Finally you ask, “Does anyone remember this or was I dreaming?” I think I can answer that and I wasn’t even aboard. Sometimes our memories, our dreams and the years conspire to play tricks on us. You were wise to ask your shipmates for confirmation. I’d suggest you listen to their silence. And write the stories you can remember and confirm because when there is no one left to confirm, well then they are just sea stories.
Respectfully,
Boats417
I was looking around on JEK’s website because my Uncle was aboard her back in the Korean War during her Train Busting days, and because I was in the Navy from ’66 – ’70. Your story was interesting to me because I was on an ammunition ship, the USS Mt. Katmai (AE-16). Back then I always watched for the DD787 but never saw her. JEKs WESTPAC deployments must have offset our returns to CONUS. I was a Boatswain’s Mate and a winch driver and I saw countless rearmings that went exactly as you described – up until the part about the pallet going in the screws.
I’ve done hundreds of destroyer rearmings in all kinds of weather. I’ve had pallets get dunked, then go tight-wire and flip over as you described. We usually dunked them again, then tight-wired the rig on purpose with precise timing, causing the load to flip in the opposite direction, untwisting itself. And I’ve seen pallets splatter apart on the deck of tin cans slamming some of the loose projectiles hard into the deck, causing everyone who was watching to wince. Here is my assessment.
Even if the load breaks apart and goes deep 6, it’s virtually impossible to loose a wire pallet because of the way we threaded the slings through the sides of the pallets; in, out and around the center post and then back in on both sides. The load may break up in transfer and the pallet arrive empty, but if that happened we probably would have just brought the hook and empty pallet back to put on another load.
If it was a wooden pallet it could have broken apart and come off during transfer, but the transfer of a wooden pallet is not likely for the following reasons:
A) The older tin cans like the Kyes usually had shorter king posts (The temporary steel post inserted in the deck where the highline rig is attached) this did not allow enough height above the deck to receive a full pallet. Consequently we usually broke the pallets down to loose projectiles and sent about six or eight projectiles a coaling bag. Coaling bags are a throwback to the days when ships ran on coal, but ours were made out of modern materials. Several bags could be sent in one transfer.
B) We usually didn’t transfer on wooden pallets because they were old, badly damaged and too weak, and tended to break apart in situations just such as this.
C) If a wooden pallet went in it probably wouldn’t have sunk deep enough to get into the screws, and if it did somehow manage to get deep enough, the screws would just go through it like a big potato chip. By the way, wooden pallets were depleted from inventory by 1968.
The story goes on: After the pallet was allegedly sucked into the screw “it caused the screw to get skewed on the shaft thus causing a lot of vibration on the ship.” You go on to say, “The Kyes went dead in the water as the chief engineer put on diving gear and went to take a look see. He determined that if the ship sped up to high speed that the screw would automatically align itself on the shaft and fix itself. The ship shook badly as we brought it up to speed, then it suddenly stopped shaking. It was amazing.”
(Note: The root cause of all this was rough weather.)
I can’t imagine anyone going in the water in the vicinity of the screws while the ship is dead in the water in rough weather. Presumably the stern and the screws would be heaving up and down as the ship pitched. Going anywhere near those screws would be suicidal.
Once after my ship had a collision with the Coral Sea, due to extremely bad weather, our First Lieutenant put on a Mae West, tied a double bowline in a three inch manila line, rounded up about six of us to man the line, and then climbed over the side with a flashlight to inspect the side for damage. He didn’t ask permission to do this because he knew he would be turned down. When he came back up he swore us all to secrecy. My point is this was an unbelievably dangerous action, done quickly and surreptitiously, but it pales in comparison to putting on scuba gear, which would take a long time and draw a lot of attention and then going in the water to inspect the screws in rough weather.
Then you say the Chief Snipe, “determined that if the ship sped up to high speed that the screw would automatically align itself on the shaft and fix itself.” This is probably the most far fetched part of the story. I’m not a dynamicist and I don’t have an engineering degree, but I’ve worked in engineering offices my whole working career as a technical designer, in part because I have a pretty good innate sense about mechanical things. I can assure you that anything that rotates on a shaft wants to go wonkey all on its own, all the time. If that rotating object gets off center or unbalanced for any reason, the situation will only degrade from then on and the faster it rotates the sooner it will self destruct.
Finally you ask, “Does anyone remember this or was I dreaming?” I think I can answer that and I wasn’t even aboard. Sometimes our memories, our dreams and the years conspire to play tricks on us. You were wise to ask your shipmates for confirmation. I’d suggest you listen to their silence. And write the stories you can remember and confirm because when there is no one left to confirm, well then they are just sea stories.
Respectfully,
Boats417
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Dave Goldner
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:13 am
Re: Remember this Incident?
Hi Guys: I was the MPA when this incident occurred and Lt Commander Fend who was the XO asked if I would go over the side with a diving mask while he went down to inspect the screw for damage. He had some kind of mask with a long air hose attached that I had no idea we had onboard. I refused to put on the air hose mask since I knew I was claustrophobic aside from the fact I had been a college swimmer. He went down for a few minutes and swam around while I nervously watched from above, like I would rescue him if he got in trouble. He was twice my weight and my plan if he got in trouble was to signal the deck guys to pull in the hose and hope it didn't come off his face. I was also afraid I was going to get attacked by sea snakes or sharks, neither of which I had ever seen in the area but I knew they were waiting for me. My recollection was that the previous evening we had taken on ammunition in rough weather and left the ammunition ship in a hurry taking along several of the pallets. The amidships crew threw the pallets over the side from the ASROC deck and apparently one of them became entangled in the port screw. After listening all night to a rough running port shaft at low speeds we proceeded to run the ship in reverse and forward and the sound and rumbling went away. The XO claimed there were scratch marks on the port screw. I do remember the water being crystal clear like a swimming pool and the water was extremely calm and a good time was had by all. As a side note, the XO was a complete maniac and I was one of the few officers that got along with him mainly because he was funnier than hell and basically a big kid.
Dave Goldner
Dave Goldner